Discussion about rules and especially the 'underage' topic

This is a placeholder for the discussion. I will add my point of view here later, but for now, if you have to say anything about the rules and the reasoning for them, which I have posted here, this is the place to do so.

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After this story had been posted yesterday, another shitstorm about it being pedophilic has started. In the summary, the character in this story (which is willingly transforming himself into a muscle jock) is described as 16. Other than that there is no indication about his age, he’s not described as looking young or even twinkish.

A few people started to shout at the author, that he supposedly endorsed pedophilia, and at me for allowing that. In one mail (the only one I’ve got), somebody wrote:

good to know that the site is in the hands of a sick fuck pedophile, never supporting you on patreon or donating ever again

Not that this person ever had donated before.

This is the reason I, once again, wrote up the rules and the motivation for them. This should be the end of it, and we could move on.


However, I am really really pissed by that attitude of those people, especially US citizens, who seem to only see their own view on life as the only valid one and want to force their point of view on everyone on the whole world.

You know, as I’ve grown up, I’ve always looked very favorably at the United States, as it stood for democracy, morality, tolerance, freedom and humanity. There were the US series I loved, like Star Trek TNG or Babylon 5, which told such a nice message about how people should deal with each other, which gave me the impression that most people in the US are really decent people.

Because of that impression, I had even considered to try to immigrate into the US at some point.

However, as I grew older, I learned more about the ‘dark side’ of that country. A history of slavery, racism which is still a dominant part of society even today. Religious puritans which stand for the absolute opposite of everything I believe in.

Every country has its dark side, and especially we Germans have a burden to carry because of our history. And these days, more and more people in Germany are full of hate, prejudice, and racism.

But on top of that, I realized that many US people seem to think they have the right to tell everybody on this earth that their way of life is the only right one, that they are the moral compass everything has to be measured by, and that everyone has to follow their way. If you don’t, you’re either a bad person or stupid.

I call this moral imperialism!

This hubris is really getting to me. In the last couple of years, with the Tea Party, Republicans who actually think that a fair health care and taking care of the poorest people is pure socialism, Trump and everything else that’s happening really turned my point of view I had on this country around like 180°.

I know it’s not all Americans, but the sheer amount of people who are more or less thinking like this is really fucking frightening. I am just glad that I am not living in that country.


Back to the topic at hand:

Using the word “pedophile” for someone who has sex with a 16 or even 14 year old is actually just watering down that term. A pedophile is attracted to children. Not teenagers! He’s attracted to kids who are not in their puberty yet at all. As soon as puberty kicks in, a kid becomes uninteresting to a pedophile!

Somebody who acts on his pedophilic sex drive is always doing abhorrent things to helpless little humans, who are at total mercy of their abusers. This is about the most abhorrent and evil thing you can do.

So using that term for a 20-year-old who loves a 16-year-old is simply wrong, wrong, wrong. It just relatives the horror of that word, it just makes it commonplace.

You know, in my direct neighbourship lives a young woman who started her first relationship with a boy when she was 14. Now she’s 16, her boyfriend is 20. Her parents know about this, and they even want him to stay during the night - fully aware of what’s happening in her room - because they rather know about her sexual life instead of being lied at and having to learn that their girl ended up in the wrong company.

This is a fact of life. Their love is beautiful, the young man is gentle, nice, caring and they might even start a whole life together.

But US people and US law want to call him a pedophile. Fuck it!

I am not going to be judged by puritans, I am not going to allow US law to rule over me. It’s not my law, it doesn’t apply to me, and I actively reject it.

End of rant.

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I don’t see myself using a site ran by someone who thinks fucking kids aged 14-18 is acceptable.

Very simple: Don’t use it! Go away! Fuck off!

You probably think that it’s ok to fuck someone by abusing your position of power over him/her to get what you want, as long as that person is at least 18.

This is simply so wrong.

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Sick projection buddy, what’s wrong is sexualizing someone who is 14, if you are older you are always in a position of power over a teenager and it is always wrong and immoral.

I totally agree!

But so is hypnotizing an 18 year old (or anyone in any age) to sexualize him.

But for some reason you don’t have a problem with stories about that.

There is a word for this! Hypocricy!

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Lmao hypnosis and mind control stories posted on this site are effectively magic and have zero application to reality. Don’t even try to put any kind of equivalency between them and fucking 14 year old kids.

So you’re telling me, reading the fantasy of raping a 18 year old is ok, while reading the fantasy of raping a 16 year old is not.

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I would like to point out to our anonymous poster that you are the one injecting the age 14 into this discussion, not Martin or anyone else so far. Maybe you need to look at your own interests before you go pointing fingers at anybody else.

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My primary concern with these rules doesn’t come from a moral standpoint, but entirely from the point of whatever German law has to say about this. You need to check on that, and I would recommend doing so sooner rather than later, because regardless of the fact that this is purely fiction and no real sex has occurred, the laws in most countries do not permit writing about anyone under the age of 18 in a sexual context. That means that you could get in serious legal trouble for hosting these stories. Laws are not known for making sense or being fair, so your justifications for the rules don’t matter, in the end. Be safe!

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This totally reminds me of the time that story was posted about the guy who gets ultimate power and destroys a bunch of lives while getting his sexual kicks, and also kicks a dog.

Everyone lost their shit about the dog getting kicked, as if it was less fiction than the rest of the bad shit being done. Comment after comment about how evil it was, all while being fine with the rest of the evil shit, because fiction.

People be crazy.

Laws are different in different countries. The decision in any country as to what constitutes an adult is just some number that got picked. Why is someone getting raped in a story fine if they just (fictionally) had their 18th birthday? Did that one (fictional) extra sleep impart then with new powers that allow them to make “adult” decisions all of a sudden?

B’ah. Such an asinine discussion. It always devolves down into the weeds about what’s the valid age of consent.

  1. it’s fiction. Different rules than real life.
  2. age of consent / rules around that are different in different countries, regardless of your views and what they are in your country
  3. if you disagree with how Martin does things, please kindly fuck off

As my dear mother often says, there is no piano tied to your ass. Go start your own site with your own rules based on your own views.

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This is a good point. Also worth mentioning that many countries actually allow writing about “underage“ sex even though the laws against it in real life don’t allow “Underage” sex.

You can’t tell me someone isn’t getting off reading Lolita. There’s no way, and that’s considered a literary classic and is still sold on Amazon, in the US, legally.

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@RobinHood70 - I’m sorry, but I disagree, it’s not the Anon injecting that into the conversation.

Martin’s initial post in this post references 14 year olds on more than one occasion in the context of the discussion. His “reasoning for the rules” post also implies that he’d have been fine with this article being written about a 14 year old (since 14 isn’t prepubescent, and that’s what he has an issue with)

Actually, that’s not what I’ve been writing, Anon.

I’d reject a story about a 14 year old, because the chances that he/her is not yet in the late stages of puberty are very high.

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The age range of 14-18 as being acceptable was provided by Martin in a link that specifies what’s considered “late stages of puberty” (http://www.healthofchildren.com/P/Puberty.html) and that’s taking the most charitable interpretation of “late stages of puberty” being “the last stage of puberty”, otherwise it includes people as young as 11. But I’m glad that we are in agreement that 14 is sick and shouldn’t be condoned by the site’s admin.

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Yes. They have all kinds of strange rules regarding the writing of sex encounters with minors. If it is artistic (Lolita) or has educational merit it can be read. If it’s considered pornography, it’ll be a problem. Some people have gotten in trouble about this in recent times, as they interpret random novels with teen sex in them as pornographic or that vague word, obscene, and I think that is a terrible violation of free speech. A romance between a 16 and 25 y/o in a fantasy novel isn’t pornography…

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Nobody listens. Of course 14 wasn’t going to be allowed! Nobody here actually wants that I imagine! But the pedo-slinging accusers have been flying off the handle.

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I personally do not feel comfortable with anyone who looks under twenty. There are Hollywood actors at the moment that people lust over who I would not feel comfortable doing so, Tom Holland being the most egregious example, especially since everyone drooled over him as a high-schooler in Spiderman. Yet, he was of age when filming it, so it was morally okay.

This website is run by a German person, where the age of consent is 14. He could easily declare that stories are allowed to feature anyone who is at least fourteen, and it would be completely fine and dandy. But the owner knows about the sensitivities present in other countries where the minimal age is 18, so he took the most sensible and, I’d even dare say “politically correct” approach: that people must be described as on the late stages of puberty.

If this is what gets people off, good for them. For me, the specific mention of a teenager in the story turns me off as much as the mention of scat, cuckoldry or holding hands. And hell, if this is what gets people to control their urges and not prey on some confused closeted 17 year old and take advantage of his innocence, then good for them. Additionally, we do not know how old these writers are. They could easily be some 18 year old dude reminiscing on fantasies he wished he had experienced two years earlier. Hell, when I was 16 I would have gladly been fucked my brains out by two guys in their late 20s I had a massive crush on. Now that I am older, I can see how wrong that is, but actually writing out those fantasies gave me an outlet to process them.

The ease at which someone accuses someone else online of being a pedophile (which is even the wrong term to use in this context, as the real one is ephebophile) is starting to become a very dangerous thing, not to mention disgusting, the same way anyone who voices views not deemed as correct by certain groups is now easily called a nazi. Stop trivializing words that are extremely dangerous and damaging when used as an accusation. And I am saying this as someone who believes pedophiles actual pedophiles should be shot dead if they are caught abusing and molesting a minor.

And to the person calling Martin a sick fuck, go fuck yourself. Martin is one of the sweetest, kindest people on this website, and he certainly does not deserve that treatment.

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16 is probably the lowest you’ll see. The first person can serve as the example: “I can’t be on a site that hosts 14-18…” If you don’t like it, scram, or better yet, don’t read those stories! No one is putting a gun to your head. They have an adult-youth section on Nifty as well. Do I go there? No! But I don’t go haywire over it. You just don’t read them. The world doesn’t revolve around you.

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Anon: Martin mentioned 14 year olds only in the sense of not qualifying under the term “pedophile” and as an example of someone he knew. Not once did he suggest or even imply that that was being considered for the site. The anonymous poster, however, did.

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